Yep...been teaching that for about ten years. Jesus' grandmother's in matt 1 all have a strange sexual story and were seen as scandalous. Just like Mary and the author Matthew.
Hi Kaleb - What are your thoughts on the reformed position that Ps 51:5 is not referring to his mother's sin, but the sin that all men are born with (Rom 5:12-21)? As Rom 5:19 says, "For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous" (ESV). Also, iniquity is typically a hidden sin (or innate/original sin that is our flesh) compared to a transgression which is a purposeful act against God. That would make his statement in Ps 51:5 point to himself and the sin/iniquity he is conceived and then born with which is due to Adam's transgression (Rom 5:17). Would love to hear your thoughts.
My thoughts are layered. I don't think David and the Israelites had the exact same theological concept of OS that we do as moderns. That being said, while he probably has some of that in the background, the way he uses ‘khata’ grammatically indicates a sinful action, not really being birthed into a sinful "state." David was a genius, and was fairly self-aware and spiritually insightful/prophetic, so he likely had an idea of basic fallen nature, but just not in the way we think of it on this side of history.
Man these are such great and beautiful thoughts. Thank you for penning and sharing these. Your commentary on other ancient gods' lineage in comparison with Jesus' conception reminds me of Tertullian's writing (maybe you already know this, but he argues that the "gods" of the Greek and Roman pantheon were merely humans who had been deified in the public consciousness, and that their lewd, sinful power dynamics only served to magnify the beauty of the true God Christians committed their life to).
Tertullian's stuff is very interesting. Yeah I think many of the ancient storied heroes are either a) deified humans with a taste for propaganda or b) demonic entities with the same. There may be a c) inventions of writers' imaginations as copycat legends, but I definitely don't believe the bulk of ancient mythology is just a bunch of made up stuff. It came from somewhere. From whom, for what, and how much spin is there? Who knows. But I believe the forces of darkness have been involved from the start, and they're still weaving mythologies of various kind today.
Thanks so much for reading and engaging, Ben. Trust you're well my friend!
Yep...been teaching that for about ten years. Jesus' grandmother's in matt 1 all have a strange sexual story and were seen as scandalous. Just like Mary and the author Matthew.
Hi Kaleb - What are your thoughts on the reformed position that Ps 51:5 is not referring to his mother's sin, but the sin that all men are born with (Rom 5:12-21)? As Rom 5:19 says, "For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous" (ESV). Also, iniquity is typically a hidden sin (or innate/original sin that is our flesh) compared to a transgression which is a purposeful act against God. That would make his statement in Ps 51:5 point to himself and the sin/iniquity he is conceived and then born with which is due to Adam's transgression (Rom 5:17). Would love to hear your thoughts.
My thoughts are layered. I don't think David and the Israelites had the exact same theological concept of OS that we do as moderns. That being said, while he probably has some of that in the background, the way he uses ‘khata’ grammatically indicates a sinful action, not really being birthed into a sinful "state." David was a genius, and was fairly self-aware and spiritually insightful/prophetic, so he likely had an idea of basic fallen nature, but just not in the way we think of it on this side of history.
Man these are such great and beautiful thoughts. Thank you for penning and sharing these. Your commentary on other ancient gods' lineage in comparison with Jesus' conception reminds me of Tertullian's writing (maybe you already know this, but he argues that the "gods" of the Greek and Roman pantheon were merely humans who had been deified in the public consciousness, and that their lewd, sinful power dynamics only served to magnify the beauty of the true God Christians committed their life to).
Tertullian's stuff is very interesting. Yeah I think many of the ancient storied heroes are either a) deified humans with a taste for propaganda or b) demonic entities with the same. There may be a c) inventions of writers' imaginations as copycat legends, but I definitely don't believe the bulk of ancient mythology is just a bunch of made up stuff. It came from somewhere. From whom, for what, and how much spin is there? Who knows. But I believe the forces of darkness have been involved from the start, and they're still weaving mythologies of various kind today.
Thanks so much for reading and engaging, Ben. Trust you're well my friend!